If you want to stop the SNP, you need to vote Scottish Labour

Labour Hame editor Duncan Hothersall says the Tories have a long history of enabling, not opposing, the SNP, and the way to stop the nationalists is to vote Scottish Labour.

 

I’m not a huge fan of voting against things in elections. It’s a far more positive motivation to vote for something, and all parties should be seeking to persuade us of their positives, rather than the negatives of their opposition.

Nevertheless it is inevitable in these polarised times that there is much talk, in the lead up to the snap general election on June 8th, of how to “stop the SNP”. The party’s dominance under the Westminster first past the post system, which in 2015 delivered them 95% of seats on less than 50% of votes, makes them the election’s only real target. And the fact that they consistently use their dominance as an argument for independence means the parties which, like the majority of Scots, oppose independence are strongly motivated to try to knock a few off that total.

Incidentally, remember when the SNP campaigned for those seats in 2015 by telling us a vote for them was not a vote for a second referendum? Remember when they played down independence in their 2011 manifesto only to spring five years of division on us when they won? Remember how in 2016 they said the same again, and that a second referendum would only happen if there was sustained, significant support for it in the polls? One lesson we have to learn this time is that you can’t trust the SNP on this issue. No matter what they say during an election, after it they’ll claim every single vote cast for them was a vote for separation.

So there is an understandable groundswell among the majority of Scots who do not want independence and do not want to be put through another divisive referendum: the SNP must be stopped this time. So how do we do it?

Well let’s just remind ourselves of the track record of the Scottish Tories.

When the SNP were first elected as a minority government in 2007, they faced four years of trying to pass budgets in the Scottish Parliament to build up their credibility in government. Who did they find to help them in this endeavour? Not Scottish Labour. We stood against their tax cutting, public service cutting and centralising nationalist agenda. No, their little helpers for the four years from 2007 to 2011 were the Scottish Tory party, who did cosy deals each year to get budgets passed.

Thanks to this, by 2011 the SNP were in a position to form a majority government. (Incidentally, the tax cutting, public service cutting and centralisation continued apace.) We faced three years of a divisive independence referendum, but through hard work and sacrifice we saved the union. And what did the Tories do? They undermined the hard-won No vote by announcing “English Votes for English Laws” on the morning of the referendum result; helped to cement, rather than overcome, the division in the country; and sowed the seeds for the next grievance which would lead to the next referendum.

And of course nobody needs reminded of the most reckless and damaging action the Tories have taken: attempting to resolve internal party conflict by promising an EU referendum if they won the 2015 election. The reckless Tory Brexit vote of 2016 now risks a second independence referendum, and puts the union in peril again only three years after we saved it. Not to mention the fact that Brexit is an act of economic and social vandalism whose negative effects will be felt for decades.

Against this backdrop it is nothing short of extraordinary that the Scottish Tories should be arguing that a vote for them is a vote to stop the SNP. Time and time again they have demonstrated that nothing enables the SNP and their nationalist agenda more than a vote for the Scottish Conservatives.

Labour is the underdog in this election, without question. But those who seek to stop the division of nationalism in its tracks should examine the track record of the parties claiming they can do that.

We know the SNP spend elections pretending that a vote for them is not a vote for independence, and then as soon as polls close they grin and assert the opposite. We know the Scottish Tories spend elections claiming they will stand up for the union, and then as soon as they have the chance they endanger its future at every turn.

Labour will do no deal with the SNP or the Tories. Labour stands implacably against independence and against a divisive second referendum. And unlike the Tories, Labour won’t play games with your votes.

If you want to stop the SNP, vote for your Scottish Labour candidates on 4th May and 8th June.

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78 thoughts on “If you want to stop the SNP, you need to vote Scottish Labour

  1. Anybody that doesn’t realise the SNP’s purpose in life is independence *really* hasn’t been paying attention these last 50 years!

    In any event, “Labour will do no deal with the SNP or the Tories. Labour stands implacably against independence and against a divisive second referendum. And unlike the Tories, Labour won’t play games with your votes. If you want to stop the SNP, vote for your Scottish Labour candidates on 4th May and 8th June.”

    Is that an unequivocal commitment that there will be no power-sharing arrangements in any local authorities, and are you actually in the position of authority to make that promise?

    We do need to be more positive, and I think there are a couple of areas in particular where that needs to be seen.

    Firstly, the overwhelming majority of Scots voters who voted Remain. What’s our positive offer to them? I’m certainly not hearing it from Labour in the UK or Scotland. If there’s a positive offer there, it needs to be highlighted with much more vigour and enthusiasm that in it now. If we don’t have one we’ve got about 6 weeks to find one.

    Secondly, we have to recognise that support for independence hasn’t fallen back to its historic levels post-2014, and post the delivery of the “Vow” and the “nearest think to federalism”. At the moment we’re routinely disengaging ourselves from between 45% and 50% (depending on which poll you believe) of our potential voters. At the moment we’re simply demonising them. We can’t afford to do that. By the way, the undeliverable federalism plan we got a few weeks ago isn’t the answer there, because we’ve already got the “Vow”, remember?

    Don’t moan about FPTP. We had the chance to do something about it and bottled it. Anyway, we got cuffed under PR too, which suggests the system isn’t the problem.

    Finally, all politics in a multi-part system is divisive to one extent or another. I’m surprised I have to point that out…

    John

    1. “Don’t moan about FPTP”

      You are right that the Labour Party did nothing about it when they had the chance, and that it made no difference in Scoland at the last GE, but EVERYONE should be moaning about it.

      It is divisive, leaves people feeling unrepresented, and easily manipulated.

      How can it be right that 3.8m UKIP voters get 1 MP whilst the Liberal D mic rats get 8 with 2.4m. How can the Conservatives gain an overall majority of seats on only 37% of the vote.

      Both the Scottish and Brexit referendums showed what a divided country/Union we live in. Our governing bodies should reflect that and then be expert enough to manage decisions in the best interests of the country as a whole rather than taking nag a 52/48 split to mean 52% WIN. In the circumstances nobody wins.

      The vote for AV was a travesty, and an example of two partie who really do don’t want the system to change as they were more interested in power than they were in representing people.

      1. On the contrary, the Labour Party introduced PR in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and London. And of course it made a difference in Scotland at the last GE – the SNP won 95% of the seats on less than 50% of the vote!

        1. Sorry Duncan. Happy to concede the system in Scotland in much fairer and Labour played its part in that. I was referring to the UK system, which still massively affects us. Also happy to acknowledge that the system tends to place a higher “value” on Scottish votes – around 26k per seat compared to UKIP’s 3.8m per seat and the Tories 34k. My point was merely that FPTP is designed to provide a winner, not representation.

          1. But if you have some regional seats and some FPTP seats, this throws an additional burden on the MSPs who represent constituencies, so the two kinds of MSPs are unequal. The seats should all be FPTP or Regional list

          2. Agreeing with Jim O’Neill here for once. Though I would throw FPTP out as an option.

            In my opinion, certainly for Holyrood, all but the three Island seats should be multi-member with MSPs being elected from an “open list, d’Hondt” system. It gives the chance of proportional representation to the same degree the current Holyrood system does while tying every MSP to a particular seat.

            The “open list” (as opposed to the current “closed list” for Holyrood list MSPs) leaves candidate selection open to the Parties while leaving the electorate the choice of which one they prefer. That is, if a Party puts Joe Bloggs at the top of their list but the public thinks he is a plonker, they have the ability to vote for the Party but put their cross next to another person on the list.

      2. I’m certainly not an advocate for FPTP, and it’s undoubtedly a missed opportunity that we didn’t take the chance to introduce a fairer voting system for Westminster when we had the chance. More’s the pity.

        However, as I also pointed out, we’re getting our rear ends handed to us under PR as well.

  2. Duncan,
    The greatest deceit of all is when you deceive yourself. When you know something is not true but the reality is so awful you just cannot admit it, not only to others, but to yourself. .
    What a terrible place you are in Duncan. Blinded by your hatred you can no longer see the straight. You are so consumed with bitterness your normally reliable common sense that has seen you well so far in life has deserted you when it comes to politics in Scotland. I understand. I’ve seen first hand. Individuals convinced that the rise in the fortunes of another party have put an end to their vision of a great career.
    To be motivated by hate is a bad emotion. I am not one of those that believes in karma but negative feelings are not good. Worse still, is, as I say dishonesty with yourself. Denial as the shrinks call it.
    This is where I ask you to sit down and have a good talk to yourself Duncan, because I am worried for you. You know you are not telling the truth here. You know that if your motivation is to stop the SNP at any costs then voting Labour is not the answer. Voting Labour in Scotland will help to the SNP. Don’t try and fool yourself, you are not fooling anybody. A vote for Labour in Scotland is pointless. Labour are about to be washed away down south. You know this. If you really want to stop the SNP you know where to put your cross Duncan.
    I am not going to say the words. I think it will be good therapy and help you move on if you type the words out yourself. Go on Duncan stand up and say it ‘ I am Duncan Hothersall. I want to stop the SNP. I am going to vote ….’.

  3. The idea is to stop the Tories not the SNP Duncan. Its not the SNP keeping labour from power at Westminster.

    This isn’t a referendum vote on Independence this is about an election to the Westminster Parliament.

    The idea is to prevent the Tories getting a greater overwhelming majority across the UK. That’s means voting tactically to stop them winning anywhere.

    They are literally deliberately killing people with their policies and ideology. Stopping them is morally imperative.

    The SNP are best placed to keep the Tories out of Scotland but not if Labour votes tactically to help them defeat the SNP in marginals.

    A vote for labour in Scotland is now a vote for the Tories. The Tories cant take any SNP seats without Labours help.

    You going to tell your supporters to give it to them?

    1. I agree with the “vote SNP to stop the Tories in Scotland” line. Labour can’t do it. They are too far behind and any vote for them in preference to the SNP only helps the Tories.

      Labour need to decide who the enemy of the ordinary people really is. The abhorrent, bigoted Tory Party with their cruel welfare cuts and self serving pro-wealthy policies; or the SNP who more-or-less occupy the same ground as Labour (except with the responsibility of power and the often unhappy choices it leaves them faced with) with largely only, sadly, the belief that Scotland can prosper as an independent country separating (sic) them.

      Really Mr Hothersall, would you prefer fewer SNP MPs and a herd of arrogant, smug “Scottish” Tory MPs crowing about how they “won” the election, or 59 SNP MPs actually standing up for Scotland and progressive UK policies (which can then be implemented in Scotland) in tandem with English Labour MPs. There’s no point, in the current circumstances, saying you would prefer 59 “Scottish” Labour MPs as even 1 is unlikely to happen.

  4. Sigh, you mention the SNP more than you mention Labour in this article. The only thing it tells me is Labour is against a 2nd IndyRef but nothing about they’re actually for. You’re more hell bent about stopping the SNP than the rape clause Tories – and that tells me everything about the mindset of your party just now

  5. The Tories have been abusing the poor, the disadvantaged, the minorities and the disabled whilst doing all they can to improve the lives of the rich and the tax dodgers.

    I want Independence for Scotland as I see it as the only way to avoid governments that do not care at all about the majority of folk in Scotland.

    It’s desperately sad that the case is being made, and being won, that if you’re a unionist then you need to vote Tory. If you’re rich and entitled then I understand you voting Tory as you’re a selfish prick. Otherwise you’re a gormless BritNat moron. Sadly it seems there’s a lot of them about. Good luck trying to sell them on voting Labour, I’d happily see the SNP lose half their seats to Labour than any to the Tories.

  6. The S.N.P. posited sustained support or a material change of circumstances SPECIFICALLY CITING A VOTE TO LEAVE THE E.U as a trigger for an independence referendum. You know that. To be reduced to this level of dishonesty demeans the whole discussion.

  7. An article that is breathtaking in its defeatism.

    The General Election has been called to give the Tories a free hand at imposing a hard Brexit on the WHOLE of the UK. Is there a case for tactical voting to reduce the scale of the Tory majority? Arguably. Instead, presumably based on his assumption that Labour will be slaughtered in England and Wales, Duncan urges us to vote to ensure the Tories win as many seats north of the border as possible. Given that Labour’s poll standings up here suggest the only seat held by Labour is at risk this is the only conclusion I can draw from his arguments above.

    Keep the white flag flying high!

    1. Quite amazing that an article that explicitly urges people not to vote for the Tories has been painted by many as calling for the opposite. I’m sure this must just be an oversight.

      1. Given that Labour’s likely poor showing in Scotland, drawing votes from SNP to Labour can only be seen as an attempt to increase the number of seats won by the pro-Brexit Tories.

      2. You haven’t urged anybody to explicitly not vote Tory anywhere in your article Duncan because its an article designed to encourage tactical voting against the SNP.

        The despicable Red Tories in Scotland will once again endorse support for their Blue Tory comrades against the SNP because they have more in common with each other than they have in opposition.

        And once again it will cost you support and your only seat left in Scotland. But you wont care if it allows the Tories to gain ground and seats from the SNP and thus against Corbyns Labour in Westminster.
        It will be another opportunity to get another Blairite in charge which of course will guarantee Blue Tory rule for decades to come.

        The future is dark the future is Blue.

        1. The whole article is a criticism of the Tories and an exhortation to vote Labour.

      3. Talks more about the SNP than the Tories in the article and literally ends with:

        “If you want to stop the SNP, vote for your Scottish Labour candidates on 4th May and 8th June.”

        Not “If you want to stop the Tories, vote for your Scottish Labour candidates on 4th May and 8th June.”

        FFS.

        1. That’s because it’s addressed to people who want to stop the SNP and are considering voting Tory to do so.

          1. So why don’t you stop concentrating on defeating the SNP and start concentrating on defeating the Tories.

          2. Because both need defeated and the SNP currently hold 54 seats in Scotland to the Tories’ 1.

  8. Duncan is congratulating labour because they saved the Union for the Tories. They saved Scotland from the burden of voting in its own Governments and instead ensured we continue to be Governed by the choice England votes for.
    They saved Scotland from Social Democracy and ensured we continued to be ruled by right wing extremism bordering on fascism.
    And now he wants us to once again vote against Social Democracy and help the Tories win more seats in Scotland.

    Rather have a Blue Tory Government supporting seat in Scotland than a Socially Democratic opposition SNP seat because Duncan is a Red Tory at heart like the rest of the Blairites in his party.

  9. Which is better; an independent Scotland with a Labour (Socialist) Govt or Scotland in a UK with a Conservative Govt for the foreseeable future?

    1. You won’t get a reply to that enormous elephant in the room. Why? Their interest is U.K. labour. Scotland doesn’t come into it.

  10. Duncan, If, as you have previously advised us, that Labour under Corbyn are virtually unelectable in both Scotland and England, and look to lose their majority of MPs in Wales, perhaps the best ploy would be to vote for a party that actually represents Scotland against the Tories at Westminster.

    Whichever way you look at it, and whatever non-Tory party you support, the performance, effort and drive of the SNP MPs at Westminster have been a revelation in how to sow discomfort amongst a Tory Government. How to question every aspect of Tory policy, and how to actually act as an ‘opposition’

    And that is something that 40 odd Labour MPs from Scotland never did.

  11. This should be know as the “forget” article, its where Duncan actually try’s to convince himself that everyone has forgotten what labour has done in the past 10 odd years.

    Duncan thinks everyone has forgotten how labour behaved in the years 2007 – 2011, how they voted against everything the SNP put forward, even if its was of clear benefit to Scotland, and the reason why was let loose by one of their own MP’s “Willie Bain” I believe, and it was on an e-mail / memo that it was to be labour policy to vote against “anything proposed by the SNP”. Of this did not stop labour from voting with the Tories and Libdems for the Edinburgh tram project, and boy did labour fuck that up.

    Of course Duncan’s version of saving the union, is slightly different from how the rest of Scotland viewed their cosy hand in hand, back-stabbing and miscalling of their own country while glued to the Tories earses. But the Scottish public didn’t forget what labour had done and they took their vengeance in the 2015 election, and kicked 40 out of 41 labour MP’s out of office. And still labour doesn’t learn and still their polling figures sink lower and lower as they refuse to back their own country, christ they can’t even back their own leader.

    And Duncan thinks everyone has forgotten the numbers of times labour has backed or not even opposed tory policy’s on austerity or benefit cuts down at Westminster in the past 10 years, or even when labour voted with the Tories against 50 plus amendments proposed by the SNP during the debate on the Scotland bill.

    If you are a member/supporter of the labour party in Scotland, ask yourself a question, how you want your labour party to act, to being more concerned about keeping a hard right tory party in power and running the union for the next twenty years or more, or for you and your own country to be an independent socialist leaning society which puts the people who live and work in Scotland first instead of their unionist political parties.

    Basically its Scotland or the Tories, your choice. don’t FORGET your labour leaders want the tories.

  12. “But those of us who seek to stop the division of nationalism in its tracks…..”

    I was interested to hear Barry Gardiner, shadow Secretary of State for Internationl Trade, explain the difference between the Labour & Conservative policies on Brexit. He talked about the conservatives threatening approach and explained how labour would have a more open and friendly approach. He then said – “Nationalists tend to think the only way you can show the love for your country is to do-down other countries. Patriots actually believe that you can love your own country and co-operate with other counties.”

    Whilst I would accept there are a number of independence supporters who might fit into Mr Gadiners “nationalist” definition, in all fairness I don’t see that from SNP or Scottish Greens.

    Perhaps SLab should take up Mr Gardiners lead and start referring to the parties as Patriots – with a different view of what is best for our country.

  13. Have the NAT supporters forgotten like their party appear to have done the local election. Our FM fresh from her 5 DAYS in the USA took another away day from the office . The office she calls Scotland to visit London to get her photy taken with her MPS . Meanwhile back home in the town she was brought up in a few things were happening, I was phone polling from my home for Labour . The recurring phrase we are hearing is Nicola isn’t listening . Its all the talk off another Indy Ref people are telling me time and again the are fed up with it. Maybe that’s why the FM suddenly woke up and said at the local election we are not voting for Indy. While she was away the folks back home were trying to cope with surgeries unable to cope and I am speaking from experience. The chemist not coping they were trying to cope with the customers coming from the doctors . The bus that is supposed to come every 7 mins took over 30 mins .That’s because of the roadworks for water repairs that are being carried out on the Ardrossan Kilmarnock route. The work needs doing but the attitude of the workmen is terrible. Barriers going up without telling the public . Roads flooding . Householders at Easter going out and removing the barriers and the Busstop closed signs . That is what local elections are about the Labour Party here are talking about things like this The local Nats are know about the local peoples perception of the FM not being focussed on their problems because like me they are being told this . Rightly or wrong people here are focusing on local affairs .No matter how the vote goes the message is Nicola isn’t listening. For her own sake she needs to address this.

    1. The issues you mention in your ignorant rant are not the remit of the Scottish Government, so why you feel the need to keep on mentioning the FM going to the USA or London is beyond me. You conveniently forget the Labour FM’s going to the USA, or more recently Kezia Dugdale during the US elections.

      “The bus that is supposed to come every 7 mins took over 30 mins” – WTF has that got to do with the FM? She has to address the attitude of the workmen!! FFS, get a grip.

      All the Unionist parties keep harking on about another Independence Referendum, not the SNP, as for all the leaflets through my door, only the SNP haven’t mentioned Independence.

      Since the Scottish Parliament has already voted for another Independence Referendum, I don’t see what the Unionists think they are going to achieve by saying they oppose one from happening during a local election campaign, you may find it is they who aren’t listening.

      1. I reported what local people here are thinking and saying the reality doesn’t matter. Once people make their minds up you wont move them . I don’t know how the vote will go. The USA trip was a public relations disaster here for the FM. Roadworks all over the place . Flooded streets.. The point I am making is that with all the Indy talk coming from the FM regarding brexit etc and going to the USA people see her as not paying attention to events in Scotland . Yes Kezia went to moniter Hillary . I think Nicola did to . The Nats also had a team monitoring Donald Trumps Facebook operation. The Nicola isn’t listening did not come from me it came from the public . As a Labour Activist I have been told repeatedly to get the message across .And don’t worry Jeremy and Ruth have been getting it too

  14. Anybody and I mean ANYBODY voting for this Tory Government in Scotland is nothing but an utter [expletive removed]. And I make no apology for that statement.
    Kudos to Kezia Dugdale who today made a very impassioned and conviction filled speech on the despicable rape clause. This is Labour getting it right this is Labour being Labour and not Red Tory. This is how Labour can defeat the Tories across the UK.
    The Tories are the enemy of us all and its in defeating the Tories we should all be concentrating on.

  15. Kezia Dugdale is either getting bad advice, or she is ignoring good advice.

    The “big” issue with the tax credits is not the “rape clause”; it’s the fact that tax credits are now being limited to 2 children.

    Therefore, the Tories are cutting the income of lower paid larger working families. Deploying their classic move of divide and conquer.

    Working Families Tax Credits were a flagship policy of the last Labour Government; they were designed to help alleviate poverty for all working families on lower incomes.

    The SNP, could remove the “rape clause” and reverse the 2 child limit if they so wished. However, the SNP are far happier to play the moral outrage card, than to actually do anything to help working people.

    It is very sad that our party leadership is either unable or unwilling to see through this cynical SNP ploy.

    The leadership of the Scottish Labour should have attacked both the Tories and the SNP over this issue.

    We are a very poor opposition.

    The people deserve much better than this.

    1. Andy you are in a bit of a pickle you blame Kezia for not attacking the SNP and the reason that it irks you is because the Tories support the Union and that is your number one priority and you are trying to deflect their criticism onto the SNP very sad indeed.

      1. Ted

        Read the post.

        I said…………

        “The leadership of the Scottish Labour should have attacked both the Tories and the SNP over this issue.”

  16. Could not agree more with what Mike said about Kezia. Ruth Davidson have had a real showing up over this. At FMQS I was looking at the glum faces behind her. As the FM said we never thought we never thought this would even have to be discussed in Parliament. As the letter said no woman should have to endure this from the state

  17. So when the rest of Scotland is terrified of this rightt wing Brexit Tory party. A party which breeds such contempt that it spewed forth the rape clause.
    When the Tories have a foothold back into Scottish seats, who are Labour rabidly trying to stop at a Westminster General election?
    Who do Labour types on here hate and despise more than anyone politically?
    Yes the SNP.
    Not Davidson, nor May, not Boris or Davies.
    Labour stumble from disaster to disaster.
    Tick tock they move slowly towards utter irrelevance.
    All the time they forget their only purpose which is to stand up for working people.
    They have a whole load of admirable left wing policies but are so far away from government,Michael Foot must be turning in his grave.
    Yet Hothersall bleats on and on and on about the SNP

  18. “Because both need defeated and the SNP currently hold 54 seats in Scotland to the Tories’ 1.”

    So the idea is to give the Tories more than 1? You didn’t learn the lessons of “Better Together” then?

    1. Nowhere have I argued to give the Tories more than one.

      You are incapable of arguing honestly, Mike.

      1. Duncan your sophistry is on not voting for the Tories is remarkable however it does not stand up to the fact that you are in reality saying to the electorate that they should employ tactical voting and vote for the Tories in spite of the SNP very sad indeed.

        1. Except I have never said that and will never say that.

          Instead of insisting that I have said things when I’ve said the opposite, how about trying being honest for once?

          1. Duncan

            Reading between the lines;

            A nod is as good as a wink….in a thinly veiled secret code, open to interpretation …to the finest of Scotland’s hypernat minds………it is not unreasonable to conclude, once deciphered……..

            You were definitely sending out a “subliminal” message that people should always vote Tory.

  19. Deary me ,

    SNP BAAAAAAAAD ..

    I once voted Labour . NEVER again.

    You and your tory mates have done nothing in Scotland but moan about SNP when they have little powers to do
    anything in the first place. Your mates in Westmidden voted against every power coming to us . We might be in a position to do better if we had what the Smith comm advised.

    SLAB are a group of selfish , ” I’m alright Jack” , career junkies who have nothing to offer us but Tory lite .

    You have no idea ,on the streets this final local elections will see you and your mates finished off once and for all with i hope the Greens pushing you down to Fib Dems level. There is a lot of anger at SLAB still about . We have long memories unlike you and your co-horts.

    Good riddence to you and you party. The best thing we ever done is replace the feeble 50 .

    Scots are awake and up to date politics wise . Your lies and spin don’t work and soon most of your council seats will be taken leaving you a small protest party.

    God please hurry up May 4th

    Lets see what happens there eh?

    1. You and your tory mates have done nothing in Scotland but moan about SNP when they have little powers to do anything in the first place.

      One of the most powerful devolved legislatures in the world, with powers not only to set policy across almost all domestic policy, but also to set income tax rates and bands, any local government taxes it chooses, and a range of over tax varying powers too. And all you lot can do is pretend none of those powers exist and blame other people for the screw-ups of the SNP government.

      Your mates in Westmidden voted against every power coming to us.

      Absolutely untrue. Labour created the Scottish Parliament, expanded devolution and voted in favour of devolving major new powers like income tax.

      We might be in a position to do better if we had what the Smith comm advised.

      The decisions of the Smith Commission were implemented in full.

      I wish to god some of you grievance experts would actually check the facts before dribbling your crap online.

      1. Censoring comments about “One of the most powerful devolved legislatures in the world” Duncan, running scared of the truth.

      2. “One of the most powerful devolved legislatures in the world, with powers not only to set policy across almost all domestic policy, but also to set income tax rates and bands, any local government taxes it chooses, and a range of over tax varying powers too.”

        “The decisions of the Smith Commission were implemented in full.”

        So why has support for independence not returned to, say, 2012 levels?

        That doesn’t seem to be a question we’re engaging with.

  20. When is Scottish (SNP! INDEPENDENCE! SNP! INDEPENDENCE!) Labour going to realise that this is a UK-wide general election and not a Scottish independence referendum (the Scottish government already has a clear democratic mandate from both the Scottish electorate our parliament for an independence referendum). The fundamental opposition to Labour (and Scotland) is supposed to be the Tories. It defies belief that Scottish Labour have learned absolutely nothing since the first Scottish Independence referendum and subsequent election annihilations. Scottish Labour’s approach to this general election is an utter joke and you will be judged accordingly for your unhealthy obsession and dereliction of duty…

    1. The local elections are the ones my local SNP did not speak about until last night. They phone polled me. Question No 1 voting intentions at local election. Question No 2 how did I vote at the last Indy ref . Question 3 how will you vote at the next Indy ref. I have 1 leaflet from them , 4 from labour .The Tories 1 in Feb haven’t been seen since

  21. Duncan, pray tell who Scots vote for to Stop The Tories?
    If you say Labour in Scotland, i’ll need some evidence to back up the numbers.

    1. The Tories only have one seat in Scotland. As you lot have been so desperate to point out for the past two years. Odd that it’s now slipped all your minds.

      1. ..but you’re challenging a resurgent Tory party to win seats.
        Don’t you think Scottish voters will just conclude you hate the SNP more than the Tories and you love the union more than progressive politics?
        Just asking.

        1. I place progressive politics above the constitution. That’s why I oppose both the SNP and the Tories.

          1. …and i suppose that you can also explain why you stood shoulder to shoulder with the Tories in 2014 .
            Scots voters see through that one, hence Scottish Labour’s continual decline towards irrelevance…which incidently I don’t believe is in my interest as a previous Labour voter.

          2. Labour opposes independence because we believe that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone. In a binary referendum, it’s more effective and more rational to work with those who agree with you on that issue.

            I am firmly of the view that the posturing from Labour, the SNP and others during the EUref, which meant some of those who agreed on Remain spent more time undermining each other than they did fighting for the result we wanted, was a contributing factor to the Leave victory.

            Better Together worked because it was united. Vote Remain failed because it was divided. That’s why.

  22. That approach ends up, as it already has, alienating those whom agree principally with the area on the political spectrum you inhabit but disagree the best avenue to deliver it.
    Before you know it we’re squabling over self determination incoherently.
    All it does is drop Labour further and further behind.

  23. “Labour opposes independence because we believe that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone.”

    Where and when have you witnessed this actually happening?

    “Better Together worked because it was united. Vote Remain failed because it was divided. That’s why.”

    Nothing to do with the fact that the media was evenly split and not all one sided then?

  24. Hi Duncan I’ve been a Socialist all my life and supported many Labour policies when they have been in power. But also a Nat since age 13, from Dundee. To see Labour brought this low is very sad. Labour were created to represent the workers in Scotland, and later this spread to the UK. Do what Labour was created for, represent the Scots and break off this Unionist mindset. It demeans the Labour Party. The Union is finished. Create new Scots Labour, pro Indy and rep the last 15% of voters that stick with you. Then you may get some coming back. I would vote Labour in Indy Scotland. Face reality and change Scots Labour. Shameful to see you promoting the Tories.

    1. The Labour Party was founded in London in 1900 as a UK party.

      1. Well before that their was :

        Scottish Labour Party – founded 25 Aug 1888

        Dissolved & merged into Independent Labour Party 1895

        Affiliated with Labour Party 1906

        You must have accidently missed a few things out Duncan.

      2. The Labour party will die if it doesn’t learn the lessons of continual defeat.
        It has two options as far as i can see in Scotland.
        The first is to adopt your way of trying to appeal to unionists and win back the Tory vote.That clearly wont work.
        The second is to win back the SNP vote.
        Nothing the likes of yourself says leads me to believe Labour can recover.

      3. The Labour Representation Committee was formed in 1900, with the Independent Labour Party (formed 1893) a key part of that process. At the first meeting of MPs following the 1906 General Election, the LRC MPs decided to use the name ‘The Labour Party’.

        When the Labour Party was formed it stood candidates in the four countries of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland – the UK as it was then.

  25. So “If you want to stop the SNP, you need to vote Scottish Labour”…

    Somewhat overtaken by events, is it not? The Conservatives are clearly the opposition party in Scotland as Labour’s support continues to melt away.

  26. “Labour will do no deal with the SNP or the Tories. Labour stands implacably against independence and against a divisive second referendum” writes Duncan.

    But Labour’s implacable commitment to Westminster IS a de facto deal with the Tories, their xenophobia, their neglect of the poor and their austerity. Labour MPs even voted for Tory Austerity in early 2015 as they positioned party policy for the coming General Election.

    Most Scot’s are more concerned about Stopping The Tories and the only way to do that is by voting SNP in June.

  27. “Labour opposes independence because we believe that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone.”
    Hard Brexit, Tory Austerity, Rape Clause, Banking Crises, xenophobic policies……Oh our “common endeavour!

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