Jim O’Neill says the SNP cannot be blamed for the failure of civil servants to correctly implement procedures in the Salmond case, but they, and the First Minister, do have serious questions to answer.

Let me set out my background which gives me some ability to comment on the Alex Salmond affair. I spent 15 years as a full time trade union official, dealing with exactly the kind of alleged conduct in this case. I also spent two years obtaining a Masters in Personnel Management from Strathclyde Business School, specialising in Joint Negotiation and Labour Law. So I have some ability to comment on the farce that ended up costing Scotland’s taxpayers some £500,000.

Let me be clear. The case that was lost, the procedural one, had nothing to do with SNP Ministers. In all such cases, following the new procedure signed off by Nicola Sturgeon at the start of 2017, the case is handled entirely by the appropriate civil servants, in this case the Parliamentary Secretary and her HR department. And they made novice mistakes for which I would have hauled any employer over the coals.

By allowing the investigating officer to be tainted by having prior knowledge of the case, they presaged the abject climbdown that happened this week. And by climbing down before the matter was even tested in court, they showed that the errors were clear to all and sundry, including the said Parliamentary Secretary. So who, then, made the decision to “robustly defend” the case? The First Minister says that she had no part in such decisions and, without evidence to the contrary, we must accept her word. So why, then, is she defending the Parliamentary Secretary so strongly? I would have expected that she would set up an investigation into such misuse of taxpayers money before such a robust defence. She must stay above the fray.

But it is seldom the initial action that brings people down. It is often the cover-up. We often forget that Ms Sturgeon was a lawyer, and so we would expect a higher understanding of the law than that held by ordinary folk. So, after denying there had been any contact between herself and Mr Salmond, why did she meet with him three times at her home and twice by phone? We now know, from FMQs, that the first meeting even included her most senior Special Adviser, a government employee. And was there a record made of these contacts, as required by the Ministerial Code? If so, where is it? If not, why not?

This was, at the very least, extremely naïve behaviour by the First Minister, bordering on the reckless. And her excuse, that she has responsibilities as a party leader, rang hollow, given the First Minister was meeting the former First Minister about a case being investigated by Scottish Government officials in response to complaints by two government employees, and not about any party matter. And indeed Mr Salmond has suspended his membership of the SNP until the investigation is over.

It is notable that the complaints were lodged almost as soon as the ink was dry on the 2017 procedure. This indicates that government employees had no faith in the way any previous complaints were investigated. And there were previous complaints against MSPs and staff. It is to Ms Sturgeon’s great credit that she responded to such concerns by creating a process that these two brave women had faith in. It is to the eternal discredit of the those charged with implementing that process that they have mishandled the first major case using the new procedures in such a cack-handed way that no-one in government service will trust them further.

It is also to Ms Sturgeon’s credit that she conceded an inquiry to Richard Leonard so quickly, given that she had already brushed aside the demands of Jackson Carlaw. Richard pointed out that the issues involved go to the heart of the Ministerial Code, and not just to who did what when. And it was instructive that the usual baying of the SNP backbenchers was silenced by Richard’s forensic questioning. After all, as a former full-time trade union official, he is on his own ground.

I suspect, however, that any such inquiry may be pushed back until after the criminal investigations by the police are completed and the Procurator Fiscal makes a judgement on the evidence presented. Just like Brexit, this one will run and run.

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83 thoughts on “The SNP are not always to blame

  1. Its funny how so many people with abilities to comment end up doing so by failing to employ ability and instead substitute bias as their alternative.
    Nicola Sturgeon has never denied meeting with Alex Salmond. she has said clearly distinctly and openly that she had met Alex Salmond but not in the capacity as the First Minister which is the spin and worthless accusation she is being hounded with because even if she had met him in a capacity as the FM the only dereliction of duty that could be flung at her is one of following a lack of protocol. Hardly hang em high stuff but so desperate are the yooniratery to land a telling blow they will stoop to any level of worthless pitiful excuse to try and land something that looks like dirt.
    You actually pointed out the real scandal at the beginning of your attempt at another SNP Bad narrative when you aluded to the failure of the Civil Service what you have failed to point out however is the likelihood that the failure was deliberate and wilful. The leaks were deliberately timed the appointment of the investigating officer was no error but transparent ploy within what is clearly nothing more than a conspiracy to fling mud dirt and accusation without foundation.

    What fucking cover up? you’re alluding to a potential cover up that hasn’t occurred and is highly unlikely to impossible to be attempted because of the forensic level of media scrutiny and dirt digging going on.

    Yet I too cannot fathom why the FM is choosing to support a Civil Servant who is clearly implicated up to her Oxters in a conspiracy against Alex Salmond and by default the SNP and Scottish Government as a whole. I too am baffled by the position the FM is taking when she should be condemning Leslie Evans and demanding her resignation.

    1. Clearly since he had left the Party at that point, meetings between the FM and Mr Salmond could not have been about party matters. I am also now officially worried, you agree too much with me, but this is not an SNP bad piece. It is, among other things, an FM misguided piece

      1. You’ve presented yourself as somewhat of an expert or authority on these matters of alleged conduct so here you are discussing them but without any membership of a professional counselling or therapy group to your name so it doesn’t stretch the imagination or credibility to believe Alex Salmond is a bit of an expert on the SNP party and its mechanism and that the FM would seek his council on party matters fairly often eh? I mean imagine not going to your mentor now and again to discuss issues you were mentored on.

        Just spare me the worthless horseshite so I can stop using profanity when I post to you. Its just gets tedious.

  2. Im just wondering who can conduct an enquiry without prejudice? Clearly none of the parties involved and less so the opposition so whos left?

      1. That’s a route the Scottish Government has taken on previous enquiries only to have Labour cry foul care to try again?

          1. Hey Jim Bob nothing to say about the fact that Nicola Sturgeon referred herself to an enquiry by how did you put it?
            “A Private HR firm QC or Judge”? and Labours inevitable response is to set up a Kangaroo court of opposition MSPs for a transparent witch hunt instead.

            As predictable as your pitiful attempts at lying in support of corruption.

  3. You gibbering heap of worthless waffle all Leonard did was parrot the exact same questioning Carlaw spewed up and got the exact same response in the FULL KNOWLEDGE that this entire sorry episode is nothing more than a UK government conspiracy being perpetrated via the Scotland Office control over the Civil service in Scotland and of course Labour going along with it for the ride.
    Blue and Red Tories hand in glove once again in Scotland.
    Alex Salmond will be vindicated while the opposition and media go about their business as if they didn’t make a disgusting despicable attempt to ruin a good mans life and career on the back of vindictive party political gaming.
    Meanwhile REAL GENUINE abusers in both Tory parties are either left in peace or given a slap on the wrist while their accusers are hounded into keeping stum in full cooperation with a sick corruption of a media circus in the name of protecting the UK state from its deserved decline into oblivion.

    1. Actually no. It was only Richard who referred to the Ministerial Code, and that is the thrust of his demand for an inquiry substantially different from Carlaw’s

      1. Carlaws entire thrust was based on the so called Ministerial code that the FM is supposed to have somehow broken without there being any actual clarification or classification of how and where made known yet. Leonard actually using the term “Ministerial code” didn’t give his line of questioning a differential to Carlaws. They both came at the FM with exactly the same arguments because that’s the spin that’s the ONLY line of attack available. An accusation that amounts to nothing more than a lapse in protocol. Its not even media worthy or it wouldn’t be in a Country that actually had a media and not a state run propaganda circus.

        That’s it in a nutshell the absolute worst accusation directed at the FM is a lapse of protocol and even that comes evidence free and based on having to call the FM a liar without proof.

        But the most sickening thing about the whole sorry episode is even if the Scottish Government and Alex Salmond were all guilty of everything they have been accused of the Government the FM Alex Salmond and the SNP would still be smelling of roses in relative terms to both the Tories and Labour.

        That’s a cold hard fact worth remembering when you continue with you spinning waffling disingenuous posting and general lying.
        You’re doing it all in support of something far worse than those you attack.

        1. Were you listening? Richard quoted the exact section of the Ministerial Code in question. But we are all used you your selective hearing by now

          1. You’re doing it again. wilful meaningless horseshite because you’ve nothing to argue with.

  4. Nicola did nothing wrong she did not intervene in the investigation into Alec Salmond she did not know about it until he told her.
    From what I can see Nicola had no part in the process that led to the collapse of the case on Tuesday .
    It was a simple mistake that was not picked up .And has now cost the taxpayer half a million and counting .
    Where Nicola went wrong was when Alec told her she did not stop the conversation there and then and tell him no more conversations on this go through official channels .
    At that first meeting where Alec Salmond told Nicola he was the subject of a Scottish Government investigation she was accompanied by her chief of staff .
    Nicola regarded that as party business not Government business then had to admit the chief of staff is on the Scottish Government payroll .who is a special advisor with the ability to assist in party matters .
    Nicola said no one else was present at the other meetings or phone calls .
    I think she is wrong these complaints originate from Alec Salmonds time as First Minister .
    She has had to admit no minute of any conversations were kept what about the phone calls and the meeting at the SNP conference .
    To cover her self and her staff an official record should have been kept That’s basic and if she was in opposition and this was happening to the First Minister she would be asking the same questions Richard Leonard asked at FMQS.
    At FMQS Nicola looked terrible she got absolutely no support from her own benches she said at the second meeting she was on her own and afterward did not know what to do as she had not told anyone .
    But it will be asked why did she take part .
    When in a hole stop digging yesterday Nicola kept digging
    She should have thrown her hands up and said I messed up I will agree to anything you want including an investigation so move on .
    So on Thursday night the SNP would not put an MSP up for Scotland Tonight so we got Annie Wells on her own then journalists .
    Where were those Journalists over the festive season .
    We were told on Tuesdays Scotland tonight that over the festive season that Senior Civil Servants had been in court testifying in sessions no one including them knew about .
    Oh really this is Scotland so all those so called investigative Journalists who were all over this managed to miss all those court dates and did not know what was happening until a source in the Salmond camp told them .
    Now we have Alec Salmond making an official complaint he has asked the Information Commissioners Office to investigate the Scottish Government over how details of sexual harassment claims appeared against him in the press .
    In a separate statement he has stated there is an attempt to keep him out of politics .
    I hope and expect Nicola learned a lesson Alec aint your pal anymore and its him who is facing a Police investigation

    1. Alex Salmond is not subject to a Scottish Government investigation he is subject to a Civil service investigation after 2 Civil Servants as Civil Servants ALLEGEDLY made a complaint to a member of the Civil Service through a Civil Service complaints procedure specifically set up by the Civil Service to conduct this SPECIFIC enquiry.

      One of the contentions is the fact that no actual complaint was made but the 2 so called complainants were approached by the Civil Service to go over an alleged incident that was supposed to have occurred back in 2014 and that as a result they set up a specific set of complaints protocols Specifically to handle this case.
      kind of smells like a witch hunt and UK state setup to me.

      1. Mike I have just checked the STV News website it says Scottish Government investigation and Alec Salmond had someone with him although I think you are correct its a civil service investigation

        1. Mike you will it under Surgeons Chief of Staff attended first Salmond meeting FMS photo is above caption

          1. Not seeing that as a definitive indication that the meeting wasn’t about party business or anything specific. I bet her chief of staff goes to many different meetings regarding very different subjects and issues rather than ONLY being present for specific circumstances.

        2. The entire UK state media circus is running with the Scottish Government in place of the UK civil service line as a deliberate attack on the Scottish government that should be directed at the UK government.
          Its another indication of the total and absolute corruption of UK media. A media corp incapable of actually working as a media because it has been compromised and forced to act within the boundaries of political influence and criminal levels of news suppression manipulation disinformation and propaganda.
          This highlights glaringly the absolute corruption of the UK state itself. you know how bad a state is by the way its media operates.
          It also highlights the corruption of the Civil Service itself which is supposed to also be free of all political influence and authority. a neutral service that isn’t supposed to serve the interests of any political party in or out of government. A service that isn’t supposed to serve the agenda of any political body.
          The UKSSR in a nutshell a sham state of undemocratic fascist leaning criminals.

  5. Went into the Irvine Town hall Portal complex today
    In the Town hall side there is a holocaust gathering the voices exhibition its a record of the holocaust through the experiences of survivors and photographs there is a record of what the Nuremberg Laws were .Jews had to register that made me think of the UK Government making EU Citizens register today . The exhibition is on until next Friday .Its free.
    Or visit http://www.gatheringthevoices.com

  6. “by creating a process that these two brave women had faith in”

    Jim it’s my view that there was a procedural error and agree with the decision of the court.

    As for the future we await the outcome of the police investigation and depending on the conclusion ie criminal charges and court case or alternatively no case to answer this in my view will affect any future possible Scottish Government investigation or alternatively no investigation.

    Finally in your qoute at the top you say you give Nicola credit l tend to agree that credit is given for creating a process but I disagree with “two brave women” the reason being that it indicates that because they made a complaint that by that action alone that their complaints are substantiated prior to any hearing it doesn’t seem to me to be in line with due process and the right to a fair hearing and is biased.

    In my view any comments made by anybody should have been along the lines of two women have made complaints and omit the word brave so as not to influence anyone one way or the other any intentional or unintentional biased.

    1. Ted I know this is not what this blog is about but I thought you would like to know as I said in another blog I had complained to the BBC by phone about Andrew Neil on the Daily politics snow .Although the BBC complaints dept promised to phone me back they did not

      1. David the reason why they didn’t ring you back is probably because they are too busy working on ways to scrap the free licence for over 75s because they need the extra roubles to pay the Tory supporter Andrew Neil’s wage’s.

        1. Thankyou for your comment Ted
          I complained because on the week the UK Gov was in contempt of the commons Andrew complained on air that Jeremy had used PMQS to complain about Universal Credit not Brexit despite Jeremy pointing out its destroying lives .The BBC told me my complaint would be pointed out to Andrew and the Politics Live production team. And BBC complaints would get back did not happen

    2. Ted. I agree with much of what you say but I know as a former Trade Union Official, how difficult it is for women to make such complaints against their employers. So yes, the are brave

      1. Jim let me ask you the question if it was reversed and it was two men making a complaint against a woman would you say that yes they are brave that’s to say the two men are brave?

        1. It would depend on the power dynamics in that particular workplace. The difference is that in most workplaces, the power dynamics favour men over women but I have seen situations where the men would be brave in raising such a complaint

  7. The whole thing is just a distraction. Under normal circumstances, the incidents, if they happened, would have been put behind everyone involved and put down to drunken shenanigans after a party. But for some reason, years later, somebody has decided the incidents, if they happened, are worth dredging up to ruin somebody else’s life and reputation and perhaps bring down a government.

    It’s symptomatic of the toxic climate we have nowadays in relation to this sort of thing, and the particular political climate of Scotland right now. Never mind all the mysogeny, porno, paedophilia and racist scandals be-setting the three major unionist Party’s, concentrate on the SNP; Unionist Scotland’s real political baddies. That Mr Salmond may or may not have patted somebody’s backside at a Xmas party is nothing compared to the likes of my local Tory Cllr resigning, causing a by-election, the by-election occurring and another Tory scraping in on Labour second preferences BEFORE the electorate are informed the reason for it all was the original Cllr had been viewing child porn. You’d think Ruth Davidson would have questions to answer there, but apparently not. As with the myriad other unsavoury characters her Party has welcomed into its ranks only to [NOT] face the subsequent scandal.

    It’s this kind of feech that really scunners me about Scottish politics. The SNP can’t be taken down on policies and their record so let’s go down the unsubstantiated (and unprovable) scandal route whilst ignoring the beam in their own eyes.

    1. Sometimes I wonder, Me, if you actually read what I write. First I give a clear reason why this complaint has been made at this time, and credit Ms Sturgeon for it. Second you must get over your SNP victim paranoia. I also make it clear that this is a staffing matter, and not a Government matter. The title kinda gives it away and third, such behaviour, if it happened, is never acceptable

      1. Mine was a general comment on the issue at hand. I didn’t reference your article. It’s not always about you Mr O’Neill 🙂

      2. Also, addressing the “right-on” statement about such behaviour never being acceptable; that’s an easy, glib thing to say, but it ignores the general human propensity to be an ars*h*le every now and again, especially where alcohol is involved. It has gotten to the point where being an ars*h*le has become a grievous offence punishable by the ruination of your life, reputation and career.

        In the past, such behaviour was just put down to “one of those regrettable things” that happens and we all just put it behind us and moved on with our lives. Now it’s a ticking time bomb for anyone that got a bit tipsy at a party.

        When I used to go to the work Xmas do (whether in a pub or the staff room) the females would wait until I was distracted then pounce on me and try to strip me to my undies. It was a laugh for everyone, though not for me who always felt humiliated. I would pretend it was fun but I genuinely hated it. All of these occasions were witnessed by loads of people so it is easily provable. Should I now name and shame these women/friends? Should I now prosecute them, destroy their lives, reputations and families? And what about all the women who decided that the fact I happened to be wearing a kilt in an establishment where alcohol was being consumed gave them carte blanche to stick their hand up there and grab my tackle? Should all of them have their lives ruined? Or should we just put it down to alcohol induced ars*h*le behaviour and move on?

        Basically, being an ars*h*le should not be a crime.

        1. Bungo you are correct what happened to you is not acceptable and no lives should not be ruined yours or anyone and what Alec Salmond is alleged to have done was years ago Innocent until proven guilty if there is any case to answer

    2. Bungo
      I agree with you this should have been settled behind closed doors in private No way should this carryon have happened and yes Ruth should be asked about the councillor and then there is Boris his ladies and him forgetting to declare 51 grand .
      The Alec Salmond case lawyers that we are paying for all over it .Both sides I think are briefing the press that’s why it wont end .Just hope they have not briefed the Sunday papers keep it up and the police investigation might have to be abandoned .
      I hope on Thursday some one goes back to the day job of asking about issues that affect us all at FMQS

  8. It would help if SNP politicians who should know better had not taken to the Saturday papers The National has a whole host of off the record briefings from senior SNP politicians along the lines of how did this happen.
    It does not make a difference to the cause for Independence and wait and see if Alec ends up in court
    We are delivering in difficult circumstances its allegations of a sexual nature most people don’t care .
    And Alec needs to realize Nicola is in charge now .Kenny MacAskill and Tricia Marwick were criticised for being in Court with Alec Salmond and Joanna Cherry liked a tweet that from some one saying they wanted Alec back as leader. Most of those comments were made at reception in the Scottish Parliament lobby with the wine who paid for that.

    1. And he said and she said and they said and who said and blah blah blah. There is not a shred of evidence of a “civil war” within the SNP beyond the wildest imaginings of the unionist press and the wish list of wee Ruthie and the Labour guy.

      1. There is no civil war but people at the top of the SNP are briefing for and against both Alec Salmond himself told the press this wont end soon and after reading todays herald an Independence supporting paper I have to wander are people at the top trying to bring Nicola down and ordinary SNP members are wandering whats going on

  9. Again the Saturday National Jim Sillars has given an interview he says this row is a personal tragedy for both he says its time to review the party rules to allow for a style of leadership focused less on one figure he wants a system where senior people at the top have more influence he thinks that might have prevented the current fallout and brought to a head Tuesdays case before it got that far .He thinks Nicola and Alec are now in a Proxy war damaging to them and the SNP but not Independence as the SNP are just one part of the yes movement He says there is to much power in the leaders hands that started in Alec Salmonds time and in Nicolas time it was a one person party as far as decision making went .He says he has argued its extremely damaging one person in control with acolytes the party will now pay for that
    He does not think there will be an early Indy ref and its time someone was blunt with the yes movement
    When there is no national organization there has been no significant research on the policies we would have after Brexit and with no research done on policies required to put to the people the SNP are not in a position to win a referendum .And whatever now happens to the SNP don’t take your eyes of the ball independence and he thinks Nicola v Alec will not end soon .
    I made a point of speaking to people in the SNP on Friday they think the guys at the top have taken leave of their senses some think its a civil service plot to get Nicola but we agreed concentrate on local issues .That’s what matters .

  10. Yesterdays Times Alec Salmond sent a message to his supporters some people are clearly very anxious to remove me now as a political threat which is why this is probably not over
    Kenny MacAskill has told the Scotsman the police should get on with it quickly then get back to the day job he also said an inner circle of hardliners around Ms Sturgeon was driving out anyone who threatened to damage her reputation

  11. Here for me is what really counts in peoples lives Hourstons in Ayr is to close 81 jobs going South Ayrshire Council are doing everything they can to help local retailers they have a 10 year plan which includes moving the swimming pool to the high street and building a park on disused land near the river Ayr .They also have plans for the main shopping area .The Scottish Government will allocate 50 million to a new town centre regeneration fund from April this counts for ordinary people and I hope we can get back to the day job things like the above

  12. Remember Universal Credit my local paper reports
    North Ayrshire Council has spent over 300 thousand mitigating UC since it was rolled out Freedom of information requests reveal Scottish local authorities have spent over 24 million helping UC claimants Patricia Gibson SNP MP said she wants it halted and said UC is broken families are destitute in poverty and being forced to rely on foodbanks NAC has been left to pick up the pieces to the tune of 323thousand .
    NAC Labour leader Councillor Joe Cullinane said it is absolutely clear UC is creating a level of human suffering not seen in this country for decades Families including many vulnerable people are being pushed into debt and forced to use foodbanks UC is a cause of poverty and increased anxiety amongst those who have to claim it .whilst the Tories have deliberately designed a system that creates this hardship we are trying to support our residents in anyway we can despite central government putting real pressure on the councils budget .
    That folks is the day job not some tawdry who did what scandal .

  13. And when we refer to the “Victims” and the difficulties of coming forward lets not forget that these 2 women didn’t initiate a complaint at all they were prompted to be the face of a complaint manufactured by a Civil Servant. To be a fly on the wall of that particular meeting as they try to decide between them over what the nature of the complaint should consist of.
    Should we go with verbal assault? An indecent proposal? Maybe not enough teeth how about a touchy feely kind of assault? Bum spanking? Actual physical contact oh and drink lets make sure drink was involved.
    Yes we know there was an enquiry in 2013 which dismissed the issue but we’re going to try and suppress that point as we work through these new procedures and smears just in case a second Indy ref is on the horizon.
    No no of course this kind of thing doesn’t stop women coming forward with genuine complaints even if its all exposed as a sham at the end.

    1. That is as yet an allegation. We don’t actually know yet the nature of the prior discussion between the investigating officer and the complainants. That is why an Inquiry is necessary. If this allegation is proved to be correct, it would be totally reprehensible

      1. Actually its an open established fact already admitted to by Judith McKinnon who is not contesting the FACT that she first approached the 2 civil servants involved in alleged incidents in 2013 which were investigated and cleared by enquiry already. She instigated the “NEW” complaint ignoring the conclusions of the previous investigation using brand new Civil Service protocols updated specifically to run this case.
        Its the only part of this pathetic episode that we do know for sure.
        What AS legal team is after is the git who deliberately leaked details to the media in order to kick off this frenzy of corrupted misreporting and state run propaganda.
        What a REAL MEDIA would do is look into links between McKinnon and Evans and any links they may have with the 2 so called victims.
        I would love to know how McKinnon found out about the 2 ladies in question and what motivated her to approach them in the first place over something that had run its course.
        Stinks like a stinky piece of Labour.

  14. Two prime examples of Scottish media in action. Nicola Sturgeon accused of colluding with Alex Salmond by the same people who on the same day accused her of being at war with him and then today we are told she attended a meeting with senior SNP members over the affair and went “Face to Face” with “Rebels” no less while simultaneously was condemned for failing to show up at said meeting by the same group of media.

    Schrodingers Journalism.

    1. And all of it being supplied by so called SNP insiders Nicola has referred herself to the standards panel and has Jim Sillars after her for a no show at her party exec meeting who leaked that .It has to have been someone at a senior SNP level
      Sundays Herald headlines Criminal Probe into Salmond Harassment leak the Herald is an Independence supporting paper its Journalists also write for the National including the one who wrote that story which he is claiming as an exclusive so which faction leaked that .

      Then there is the Analysis detailing the civil war going back a long way between Nicolas top team and Alec Salmonds team Nicolas record as leader being questioned her ability to or willingness to run an Independence campaign
      The analysis by the Herald concludes given the daily horror stories about the state of public services Sturgeon can hardly fall back on her domestic policy record
      The First Minister said in November the strategy for securing another referendum might be to win the next Holyrood election the question is whether she will be in post to make that case The Herald is an Independence supporting paper as are its Journalists There is a lot more that makes me think Alec Salmonds team are briefing against the FM .
      Ordinary SNP members and Supporters must be wandering whats going on.

      1. Wilfully missing the glaring point yet again in order to spew. We don’t even know for sure there was a meeting at all about anything because the MSM telling us there was a meeting with the FM is also telling us there was a meeting without the FM.

        If I was to hazard an educated guess I would say that 2 worthless hacks working for worthless tabloids had a deadline while having nothing to fill it with decided to make it up as they went along giving their own versions of a meeting that never was.

        But you continue to spew worthless media spin for all your worth because each and every effort condemns you for the wee fraud that you are.

      2. What analysis? You’re referring to more tainted tabloid media spin which has been spewing the same horseshite for years. you sick little fraud.

        1. Nope the Herald bought it Sunday a Nationalist supporting paper most of whose Journalists also work for the National . Then we have Kenny MacAsKill wrote a column in the Scotsman Kevin Pringle wrote a column in the Sunday Times titled only bold action will salvage SNPS reputation .both presumably well paid by the unionist press the yes movement says it despises and Kenny was a member of Alec Salmonds cabinet Pringle was Salmonds top advisor

          1. There you go again with the wilful drivelling shite. The Herald on any day has only ever been a British Nationalist supporting paper. I don’t rate the National as being pro Indy either I rate it as a Herald controlled sop trying to rake back the revenues loses from its over the top Pro Brit Nat support from the pro Indy potential readership and subscriptions. The National doesn’t debunk any pro Unionist lying from the rest of the state controlled media circus it like its sister rags suppresses real news by keeping it away from its headlines.
            A real pro Indy paper would have a mountain of debunking headlines to publish daily it wouldn’t be able to afford to buy the necessary printing materials required for a single edition.
            Getting the odd column of uncontroversial articles in order to present a false face of impartiality doesn’t an impartial journal make but bring up this as an argument of impartiality makes you the howling fake cunt I have always seen you as.

  15. Jim if there is an investigation and a disciplinary hearing is convened let me make a prediction the two women will not attend the hearing in person and the civil servant presenting the case will base the case on the two women complainants witness statements, and the two women will not be there in person at the hearing, and therefore the complainee will not be able to cross examine the complainants witness statements and their evidence in person. If this was to happen and the complainee was to be found guilty then the decision at the hearing would either be overturned on appeal and if not then at an employment tribunal or in the court’s.

  16. This is what really matters to people .I spoke to a carer today she works for North Ayrshire Council and was picking up messages in the Coop for a pensioner she was going to check on .
    In the Aftermath of storm Ali a fallen tree blocked the entrance to my street for over a week the carers climbed through a hole in a fence everyday to gain access to that end of the street and see their clients these are the everyday unsung heroes who are vital for people not a bunch of overpaid politicians of all parties .
    Or Unions would like Scotlands 11 local council pension funds to merge into a national body with more assets than Scotlands annual budget the SNP has an open mind on it that’s what we could have and should be talking about.

    1. David I would advocate that in an lndependent Scotland that the Scottish Government of whichever party is in power makes a law that has a specific level of pay that all care workers must be paid by local government and alternatively by private providers. Ideally I would also have a law that all care workers are directly employed by local government and also that all care provision is provided by local government and not private companies.

  17. And on both news channels claims team Nicola and team Alec are now briefing against each other with claims Salmond is trying to smear Nicola and how are they supposed to run an Indy campaign if they get one with this going on

    1. No doubt they need all the help they can get to spread their propaganda as far and wide as possible eh David?

      1. Mike that Herald controlled sop the National has on its front page every day
        The newspaper that supports an Independent Scotland on todays front page we have Nicola and Ian Blackford Mhairi Black SNP MP and former SNP MP Tasmina Ahmed Sheikh and Patrick Harvie MSP the Green Leader amongst others all have columns in it the yes movement are in every day AOUB all their rallies times routes pages of photographs so it is the paper for the Independence movement and on todays page 8 Sturgeon I am the victim of a smear campaign and her people are accusing Salmond .
        The National has a good letters page do you not like it maybe because of the language you use that wont get published anywhere else

        1. Which only reinforces everything Ive fucking said eh? Wall to wall Alex Salmond at war with Nicola Sturgeon not because they are but because the media wants to plant a division that isn’t there in their capacity as impartial media and the National runs with it. The National referring to the Civil Service in Scotland as the Scottish Government just like its sister yoon tabloid rags.
          IF the National had a genuine anti yoon propaganda page in its quiver they would be highlighting the fact that the Civil Service in Scotland is NOT THE FUCKING SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT and Alex Salmond is not fighting the Scottish Government but the fucking Civil Service.

          So spare me more of you fucking wilful horseshite you sick little fraud.

  18. Fed up with Brexit or who did what with the Nats how about my week Saturday we saw roadwork signs going up in my street no one bothered we see them everywhere .Well we should have bothered because Monday the Water Board cut the water off with no warning to do planned maintenance on a fire hydrant chaos .Washing machines on the blink numerous showers not working including mine had to wait for a tradesman to get it going .
    Guy across the road was washing his dog in the shower that went well .
    Well the Water board telephone operator was informed we knew the water was off but we would have liked the 48 hrs notice she said we should have had . Said workmen were told very loudly what we thought of the situation and we don’t need their fire hydrant that’s why we have fire engines .
    We were told just as loudly we need the said Fire hydrant .
    Well my Shower got fixed at 830pm packed it in again at midnight which is why I am siting here with my daytime oxygen on messing with my laptop .
    Staying up and very tired so I can contact the Tradesman Tuesday 630am fix the shower again .and the PM and FM think they have problems .

  19. The Scottish Government has launched a review of defamation law to make sure it meets the challenges posed by social media .This will be good

      1. Mike, I have reviewed a number of your recent comments after they were flagged to me by other users. The level of abuse you have meted out is staggering, and shameful. You are hereby barred from the site.

  20. More important Shelter say there has been a big rise in Scots struggling to pay there mortgage or rent

  21. More important Labour controlled North Ayrshire Council are going to spend a minimum of 10 million on local housing estates and is consulting with the public over the future development of local services
    M and S have announced the names of the next 17 stores it wants to close 1thousand 45 staff affected why do I get the feeling no one cares

    1. I was wondering why we paid council tax. Its not that anybody doesn’t care its the fact that the media doesn’t care to report what people actually think.

  22. We have 2 local papers second one out today headline Water charges under review
    The Scottish Government is considering cutting the single person water charge in Ayrshire affecting nearly 70thousand people .We get a 25 per cent discount if living alone if they scrap it altogether single occupant households on band d would see their water charge increase from 328 pounds 05p to 437pounds 40p Our local SNP MSP has said a reduction for single person households could allow increased discounts for those on low incomes to be introduced
    I am a single person house I would pay a bit more to help those on low incomes why cant we have both .This is what we should be talking about

  23. 2nd story nearly 8 thousand people in Ayrshire waited over 4 hrs in a and e a 9pt9 per cent increase now I have to say in the summer after a very minor household accident and because of an underlying medical condition I was taken by Ambulance to Crosshouse hospital a and e It took over 4 hrs but all of it was treatment for a minor injury I have no complaints next day I had to attend Ayr hospital eye clinic I had an appointment time was seen on time and was referred to GP and opticians maybe we need to look behind headline figures .
    Although the Health Secretary has not done herself any favours by saying she does not intend to hold any public health board reviews .It was at these type of meetings where patients staff and members of the public could hear reports and address the board in the presence of the health secretary Shona Robison was meticulous in doing that .
    Another story we are not discussing

  24. Wednesdays National the Scottish Health Secretary has said the UK Budget Barnett Formula for health for 2019 20 is 55 million less than she was told it would be ,She said the Scottish Government has made up the shortfall but it will put a strain on other parts of the budget .
    They have allocated 392 million to reduce waiting times another story we are not talking about
    And perhaps a story we better not talk about after last nights vote Boy George tweeted he is moving to Scotland haha

  25. And The FM has said she will give her thoughts on an Indy 2 ref in a matter of weeks

  26. Spotted this in Wednesdays National
    Geoff Aberdein Alec Salmonds Chief of Staff when he was FM has confirmed he met Nicolas Chief of Staff twice last March at the second meeting in late March Liz Lloyd confirmed she suspected the Scottish Government had received an official complaint about Alec Salmond he said she made it clear to him she did not know the full details of any potential complaint and had not alerted the First Minister to her suspicions about a potential complaint .
    Then a spokesman for the FM said there was quite clearly a vendetta against Lloyd and there was me thinking it was a good story for the FM until the spokesman intervened

  27. It looks as if the FM is about to ask for Indy 2 plan b if the PM says no is to rely on a Holyrood majority at the next election I tell you this as some one planning to vote yes at an Indy ref the yes guy I met today better change his behaviour he is supposed to be trying to persuade people like me to vote yes not launch attacks on Corbyn and I ended up defending Nicola I don’t know you but keep that up and Indy is lost before you even get out your bed

    1. David l will be voting yes in the lndyRef2 and will also hope that post lndyRef2 that there is an lndependent Scottish Labour Party in an Independent Scotland. As for the fellow who has irked you with his comments about Corbyn don’t let that influence your decision as to how you cast your vote just vote in line with what you think is best for Scotland.

      1. Thankyou for your comment Ted I cant see a way out of this Brexit mess before leave day

  28. Ted
    Watching PMS statement Ian Blackford in his statement made a better argument for Indy than the FM has done she has not gone to a single AOUB rally she keeps saying I will make a decision in a few weeks .
    If she does ask and the PM says no then I think all Scottish Parliament Parties should unite to get it overturned we can always say we support the Scottish parliament but reserve the right to campaign against .
    Do you think as I am starting to do one of the reasons she wont agree to a peoples vote apart from the reasons she has stated is she would have to agree to Indy 2.

  29. David l am very impressed with lan Blackford and although l am a big Nicola Sturgeon fan l think it’s good that more folks within the SNP and AOUB and wider Yes movement air their ideas in the wider public arena it is healthy and l would like to see more of the SNP hierarchy get involved in AOUB and wider Yes movement. I think Theresa May stance against a people’s vote is nothing to do with the IndyRef2 request l think it’s just that Scotland voted to remain as opposed to the rest of the UK and if she doesn’t honour the referendum result she will lose votes to Nigel Farages new party at the next general election. Also if the Labour Party UK support a people’s vote they will also lose votes to Nigel Farages new party at the next general election. I think that the most interesting development is the EU saying that in the event of a No Deal there will be a hard border in Ireland this has undermined Leo Varadkar who l now expect will have to climb down and compromise with Theresa May and agree to some sort of change to the proposed backstop to reach a deal. It’s looking more than likely that Theresa May will get her deal voted through the commons with changes to backstop courtesy of the EU spokesman’s comments on there being a hard border.

  30. David Theresa May will not agree to people’s vote because although Scotland voted remain the rest of UK voted leave and if the referendum result is no honoured she would lose votes at the next general election. The same would apply to Labour Party UK in the seat’s that voted leave if they support a people’s vote. I don’t think that the people’s vote has any influence on an lndyRef2 it’s a separate issue.

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